On A Rail/Surface Tension

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    • On A Rail/Surface Tension

      I know this could be asking a lot, but is there any chance you might still incorporate the full/expanded Rail/Surface sequences into your game? I have them both in the still-free Black Mesa version, and they really do fill out the gameplay. I'm sure you know that the "Railyard" sequence in "Rail" is spectacular. In passing, I just cannot comprehend the complaints --or maybe excuses-- of some who say, "Well, this part or that part of Half Life wasn't really Half Life anyway, or was the least Half Life-like part of it."I do hope you can! Maybe as all part of the upgrade which will take us to Xen, too?!?
    • The dev guys already said the HL2-mod/free version will never get any updates anymore, only supports the retail one, as the free version of engine just outdated and it would be a lot of works to port new things in retail engine to the old one(and may not fully works as retail one).

      Also, do you know TextFAMGUY1's STU and OaRU mod for free version of BMS still exists like...uh, 3 years ago before he joined CC? :P

      moddb.com/mods/black-mesa-surf…ension-uncut-v20-released

      moddb.com/mods/black-mesa-on-a…on-a-rail-uncut-full-beta

      Yeah, I don't know if it may still the same maps as the retail one about STU, but I don't think TextFAMGUY1 do want port it back to mod version of engine...and he said the OaRU won't be part of retail version of game like STU update.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by PlayerLin ().

    • That railyard sequence is horrendously optimised and was pretty poorly thought-out overall, even though the end result turned out cool enough and was probably my second or third proudest bit of work from that map set. If I were to go back and redo On a Rail Uncut again (which I will DEFINITELY NEVER DO, just to be clear), that would be one section that I would completely reimagine from scratch, instead of just improving on what I'd thought up already. It could be outrageously better than how it turned out. Just thought you'd find that interesting. Not disparaging the fact that you like that scene, though! Different strokes for different folks.

      On a Rail Uncut will never be part of the BMS base game because the version of On a Rail that was shipped, was as the team intended it. Cuts and all. It still is and the team stands by that. You may or may not agree with that decision, but that's what the team wants, and, as the person who made OaRU for the mod - I actually agree with their decision personally, now. That's the reason why we made a version of Surface Tension Uncut for retail - because the cuts to that chapter were a product of circumstance and not intentional. Though there were many other reasons for doing a retail STU - and I'm really glad we did, but there's not really much reason to do a retail OaRU - not even the original creator (myself) wants to do that. I was super passionate and fired up about doing a retail STU, though.

      Regardless, On a Rail Uncut for retail Black Mesa is just a single click away on the workshop. Anyone who feels like those maps are of importance to the game, can have them as a seamless part of the game with a simple few mouse clicks. Granted, the mod is broken at the moment, but that's entirely my fault - all will be well once I get around to it. I don't really think there's anything to complain about, in this regards. That's part of the reason why we did it this way.

      Regarding comments about backporting retail STU to the mod version - that's silly and also impossible for a number of reasons. Simply put - a mod version of Surface Tension Uncut already exists. You can play that with the mod version of Black Mesa. Additionally, we don't support the free version of Black Mesa anymore. A simple and reasonable business decision, honestly. Why would we port something that we made and intended for retail back to the free version? That carries with it a huge array of issues! And (I put this reason last to avoid seeming disingenuous, the real main reason is because we don't want to and I don't want to either, and I don't think that's anything to be ashamed of or hide anyway), backporting would be impossible, even if we wanted to. Our retail Black Mesa engine has a doubled entity (and now displacement and also lightmap lump) limit, something which is impossible to do on the mod engine without engine access. The maps literally won't work on the mod version without being split in half, or without significant downgrades to the entity work.

      Hope this covers everything. Sorry if the post seemed a bit relentlessly negative, but I hope it got my point across. At least in the areas of this "uncut" stuff, everything's in place already in some form - it's basically a closed book. The real open book here is the exciting and incredible Xen stuff that we're working on! Hopefully we will bring you guys some more juicy tidbits soon.
      Chon Kemp - Level Designer and Community Manager
      Creator of the Black Mesa "Uncut" Mods - Surface Tension Uncut and
      On a Rail Uncut
      My dev blog on the development of dm_gasworks
    • You do realise that the new layout was also made by me, right? It's literally a redone improvement on the old one, straight from the same mind, with a crapload of refinement stacked on top.
      Chon Kemp - Level Designer and Community Manager
      Creator of the Black Mesa "Uncut" Mods - Surface Tension Uncut and
      On a Rail Uncut
      My dev blog on the development of dm_gasworks
    • I'd say any pilot with remote skill would be able to maneuver in that space. I think that the only reason why one might prefer the mod version over retail is a level of nostalgia (which is weird to say, seeing as it's still fairly new), because you can't really argue that the mod version was more 'practical'. If I recall correctly, Text said that he specifically spent a number of hours just designing the helipad area itself, which shows how much more consideration went into making it both more realistic and balanced as an arena than the mod counterpart (though I'm not trying to discredit the amount of work you put into that either, but it seems like your previous maps, in your mind, have a pattern of not being well thought out). Personally, my only issue with the retail's helipad design (which also existed in the mod version) is that is feels slightly repetitive having had the previous map also feature a helipad. This is just a minor gripe though and doesn't take away from the experience.
    • Dragunov2 wrote:

      Indeed I realise this pretty well!

      But the courtyard with helipad in the free version was more open , here it's surrounded by walls and maybe really tough for a chopper to land or take off
      I think you need to go and look at those maps again, you've got it the wrong way round. The mod version's helipad was ridiculous. It was elevated for absolutely no reason (pointless expensive engineering, anyone?) and was located right next to 2 buildings - very closely squished up, also for no reason. The retail version is OBJECTIVELY more open, and easier to land on, without a shadow of a doubt. This is not an opinion - it's a pure fact! Look at some references for helipads - the retail version is pretty close to how a real helipad could be designed. It might be a bit on the tight side, but that's for gameplay reasons. Early versions of retail STU had a very large helipad area (it was almost twice the size), but I eventually shrunk it because it just didn't work for gameplay. But, let's compare:

      In the retail version, the absolute closest wall is 256 units (around 7m) away from the helipad. The hangar building (the next closest) is 512 units (around 13m) away. The helipad itself is 768 x 768 units (around 20m x 20m).

      In the mod version, the close buildings (all nearby buildings are around the same distance) are 160 units (around 4m) away. In fact, to allow the Osprey to properly fit on the helipad, I had to park it quite substantially off-center to the other side, so it didn't collide with the buildings around it. The helipad itself is 592 x 544 units (around 14m x 14m).

      By any measure, the mod version is objectively less open. The mod version's helipad was insanely dangerous, FOR NO REASON. Of course, still preferring the mod version for any reason is fine - but it was objectively less open!
      Chon Kemp - Level Designer and Community Manager
      Creator of the Black Mesa "Uncut" Mods - Surface Tension Uncut and
      On a Rail Uncut
      My dev blog on the development of dm_gasworks