How to use the bug tracker


#41

Yeah, because my original post was about how we’re dealing with a sheer number of bug reports that aren’t useful to which TurboTsunami’s reply was ‘Make a new tracker!’ You’re the one who submitted them so I made mention of that.

Doing a cursory search for ‘clip into’ on the bug tracker yields 24 results. Go do a search for all of your bugs. A huge portion of them are minor issues that aren’t reasonable to fix.

Out of the 263 bugs you have reported:

  • 47 were marked RESOLVED.
  • 185 are marked WONTFIX, virtually all of which are minor visual problems.
  • 9 are marked as new.
  • 11 are duplicates.

Note: None of those 263 issues are gameplay or crash issues.

As you can see, the RESOLVED vs WONTFIX count is vastly different. Why are 185 of your issues marked WONTFIX? We clearly marked issues we fixed with RESOLVED. The only conclusion left is that 185 of your bug reports are things we don’t feel we want to / can fix. We triaged every single one of your 263 bug reports. That takes a lot of time which was my gripe in the original post I made to which TurboTsunami replied (Well make a new bug tracker, duh!). :slight_smile:

There is a reason why both TexFAMGUY1 and I reacted the same way to your reports Dadster. Both he, myself, and even stormseeker to an extent spent a time attempting to tell you why we’re ignoring visual issues.

I’m not trying to make you out to be the bad guy. I griped about the bug tracker and you happened to be the reason why. No harm no foul.

I guess the final word on the tracker is, we are working through bug tracker issues at a steady pace. If we deem that its necessary to install a new tracker, we’ll let everyone know. Right now, it is easier (and cheaper) to use a free service like bitbucket.


#42

I harken back to an excerpt from post #33 on page 2, by stormseeker, to the community.

“The tag “wontfix” is perhaps misleading, but consider it a temporary position that those lower priority issues will be placed in for reassessment later. The issues are still archived on the tracker and can be reopened when priorities are shifted”.

“Until then, please do continue to report these areas for enhancement, if I or John assign “wontfix” to it, don’t be offended, we’re simply streamlining trivials in preference to criticals and things that are more noticeable for the patch. I’ve spent 4 hours a day looking into each and every one of these bugs, in addition to my other work, each one has been assessed correctly and placed where it needs to be”.

Based on his comments/instructions, specifically “please do continue to report these areas for enhancement”, I resumed my normal bug report submissions, knowing full well that the majority of them would likely be tagged as WONTFIX. However, they would be cataloged/registered within the bug-tracker for your future reference and possible solution in subsequent future patches.

What is frustrating and unfair is that I am being discredited and singled out, as a result of following stormseeker’s recent instructions.


#43

OK. You win.

I should add, you’re the only person who has posted 200+ bugs which is why your name was dropped. If someone else had done the same thing, I would’ve used their name instead.


#44

^^Out of curiosity why don’t you start becoming a tester for companys?
I’ve seen you litterally pointing out the smallest flaws.


#45

So, regarding bug-reports, because I care more about BMS than any other community member, I get singled out, discredited and ridiculed? With all due respect, that’s not great logic. It really doesn’t provide me with any comfort. You have a bug-tracker, however inadequate. I report what I deem or see as bugs. I get scolded, reprimanded, asked to refrain from reporting further bugs and to turn my focus/attentions onto other mods and locked out of gaining access to your bug-tracker on several occasions, even though, in the end, I was following your community published instructions. This whole scenario has left me shaking my head.

I guess I should take it as some sort of odd and twisted compliment and move on, as it seems that you’ve just relented and are now accepting ALL bug-reports, or am I misinterpreting this as well? If I start submitting bug reports in my usual manner, should I expect to be locked out of your bug-tracker again?

Maybe you should post an updated status or outline for the whole community to see and understand and confirming the present state of affairs concerning the bug-tracker and reporting bugs, so that we’re ALL on the same page.

And why is it that a lowly community member needs to tell you that this action is necessary and would most likely be beneficial to everyone concerned?

It’s really funny, here I am still looking out for your best interests, even after the way I’ve been treated. Take it as a sign that I’m still in your corner and an avid supporter of BMS, whether you like it or not.

To err is human, but forgiveness is a golden trait.


#46

You know what, I’m sorry; I should’ve worded my post differently. It was not a matter of singling you out, you just happened to be the only case in which a user had submitted 200+ bugs. You’re right, stormseeker did state “continue posting these bugs.” I’ll be honest with you though, I doubt we’ll have time to be fixing them (they’re extremely minor issues). My guess is he said this not to hurt your fragile feelings. I’m more of a fan of being direct. You’re a useful bug reporter and community member, but I think your efforts would be put to better use reporting gameplay bugs. If you still have questions on what that means, send me a private message.

And now, onto the good stuff:

I don’t think that’s a fair statement. # of bug reports != you being the most caring BMS community member.

Like I said (three times now), nobody else has 200+ bugs registered. You’re right, I could’ve worded it differently, but I can’t take that back now; What I want to draw your attention to are the statistics (facts) I posted previously. 185 of your bugs will not be fixed unless BMS is completely polished.

I’ve sent you MULTIPLE private messages asking both nicely and bluntly to refrain from posting bugs that are related to clipping. I’ve made two MASSIVE posts about what we’d love to see (which you completely ignored). I have not had to do this for anyone else using our tracker. Just you.

I shut the tracker down (for everyone, not just you) because we had to triage the ton of bug reports you made. Your metric fuckton of bug reports crowds out everyone elses, which means more time spent WONTFIX’ing your stuff rather than actually resolving some crash reports.

Believe me, this wasn’t intended to be a compliment, more of a “hey, stop it!” Let me be clear Dadster, please refrain from posting issues related to clipping, z-fighting, or prop placement. That clear enough for you? You pulled the same thing with TexFAMGUY1 and he also replied in a similar (albeit more polite) fashion.

No no, I think everyone here is on the same page except you (which is why you have 185 clipping issues on the bug tracker and nobody else does).

There is no such thing as a “lowly” community member. I consider everyone my equal which is why I won’t sugar coat bullshit :slight_smile:

As TexFAMGUY1 said, we owe you nothing and you owe us nothing. If I’ve offended you to the point where you don’t want to post bugs, feel free to stop. I’m not going to hold your hand and kiss your cuts and scrapes.


#47

Let me make this clear. We want bugs. We want crash reports. We want to help the community.
However, wasting our time on bugs which do not improve the user experience is pointless.

Dadster while I appreciate your enthusiasm. We will NOT and I repeat NOT spend our limited time fixing non-critical aesthetics “problems” which tickle your inner autism.

Instead of fixing potential real bugs we are faced with spending time closing ridiculous reports like a switch “being in a unsafe place” or a clipping brush no player would ever see because you have to no-clip to an area a player can never get to.

We have a bug tracker to find and fix game breaking bugs, game-play nuisance, crash, warranted atheistic problems ( which are obvious when playing the game normally and not because you no-clipped or used artificially abilities ).

Ask yourself before posting, would this bug hinder me or any other player from playing the game? If so, why? What does it do to prevent you from playing normally?

I agree. We are a small team whom are not working on this game full-time but rather during our “free” time. We are working on ways to provide updates and support through and for our community and should have something in the future.

The average player is not going to give two shits about a monitor prop floating two inches from its base when he is shooting bees out of an aliens ass and having fun doing it.


#48

Let me reply to some of the comments posted by your-name-here, in post #49, and JamesKane , in post #50, both situated on page 3 (which is partially clipping into page 4).

I’m not going to adopt an adversarial stance, concerning this discussion, as I think the two of you have.

In response to this excerpt from your-name-here, “185 of your bugs will not be fixed unless BMS is completely polished”. Contrary to other comments made by you and other BM Devs, are you stating that BMS will never be completely polished or polished to some noticeable visually improved state, that incorporates fixes pertaining to the bug reports that you have/will receive? That’s interesting.

In contrast to your observations, although I did use noclip early on in searching for bugs, as I’ve repeatedly stated recently, I’ve refrained from doing so, at your request, for sometime now. I’m using normal player movement and suit zoom to search out bugs. You keep overlooking this point.

You keep bringing up and hanging on to my now famous “a switch being in an unsafe place” issue. That was reported almost two months ago, early on in my bug reporting. At the time, I accepted your feedback, hence the reason why I haven’t reported anything similar since.

You keep stating that my bugs reports are taxing and causing you a serious loss of resources. That really is a load of bullcrap. My bug reports are detailed with carefully crafted screenshots, in order to assist you in easily comprehending and determining the nature of the bug. For the most part, no sooner had I submitted my bug report, your team almost immediately categorized it as WONTFIX, which was evident when I refreshed the bug-reporter page, after the submission of each bug report. You could not have gone into the game editor, or whatever you use to confirm the bug issue reported. As quickly as I was submitting them, you were identifying them as WONTFIX. This was happening right before my eyes, in real time, with minimal delay. Actually, it took less time for you to do this than it did for me to submit the bugs. You weren’t investing any appreciable amount of time in accomplishing this, contrary to your statements.

I guess this all boils down to what someone considers as game-breaking bugs. Your viewpoint is geared towards issues that crash the game or inhibit the player from progressing or using the assets that are available to him/her. On top of this, my viewpoint includes aesthetic and visual details that breaks the player’s game immersion factor, such as:

  • textures that blink in and out of view.
  • similar assets/models that display different lighting characteristics.
  • handrails with gaps.
  • handrails that don’t contact walls.
  • pipe mounting brackets not adhered to surfaces (what’s the point of your pipe assets/models having mounting brackets if they’re not attached to anything?).
  • objects clipping into/through other objects (including the player).
  • objects floating in mid air.
  • inconsistencies in object placement, either within a map or other level(s).

Going forward, I get your drift. I’ll endeavor to post bugs that don’t involve issues related to clipping, z-fighting or lighting issues, unless they are extreme/obvious in nature.

In reply to an excerpt from JamesKane, “The average player is not going to give two shits about a monitor prop floating… when he is shooting bees out of an aliens ass and having fun doing it”. I think all living species, whether human or not, expect a certain amount of decorum, decency and respect, when it comes to impacting pain onto ones private parts. Consider the discomfort if it was imparted onto you!

Maybe you Devs experienced this as a result of my numerous bug reports? If so, I sincerely apologize for not recognizing it sooner and causing you such discomfort, to your private parts.


#49

Why is this a court case?
They want to fix important bugs, not minor aesthetic blemishes. Why is this so difficult for you to grasp?

This is an aesthetic worth fixing ASAP. This however, can wait until the important stuff is fixed.

Labeling these minor bugs as WONTFIX for the time being keeps them from having to sift through your dozens of “bugs” in order to find actual issues that need solving.

Say you’ve got 30 errors causing users to crash, and you’ve got 70 gaps in railings. Which ones should be fixed now?


#50

I don’t think you’re grasping the overall long-term big picture.

In response to your question, the 30 errors causing users to crash.


#51

If anyone is not grasping the bigger picture (rather than focussing on the minutiae), its you. I would have thought that the last few posts would have made things clear to you, evidently not.

Have a free holiday on me, enjoy!


#52

Well, I’d shape the guidelines slightly differently:

trivial - issue is hardly noticeable
minor - issue is noticeable, but does not have a serious impact on gameplay
major - issue prevents the player from progressing or seriously affects his/her gameplay after progressing or is very noticeable and annoying
critical - issue causes the game to crash or causes serious performance problems
blocker - issue prevents the game from starting at all

Also issue status guide:

INVALID - described issue does not actually exist or affects only modded or otherwise altered game
WONTFIX - developers decided not to fix this issue
DUPLICATE - description covers an issue that was already posted earlier
ON HOLD - issue is confirmed to exist, but it will not be fixed until additional information is provided
RESOLVED - issue has been fixed
OPEN - issue has been confirmed to exist and is awaiting an examination